E74 Is It Rude to Ghost Someone?

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[00:00:01.580] - Oliver (Host)

César, tell me about a time that you have ghosted someone.

[00:00:06.040] - César (Guest)

I really cannot recall a time where I ghosted someone who I was dating or seeing, romantically, I mean.

[00:00:17.120] - Oliver (Host)

That is touching upon the fact that there is more than one type of ghosting, right?

[00:00:21.900] - César (Guest)

I guess so. I'm not an expert on the term. I hope you did some research on the topic.

[00:00:28.740] - Oliver (Host)

To an extent - as always, the extent - we do not claim to be an intellectual podcast. The extent of the research is: we've looked up the definition of ghosting. (On Google.) On Google, yeah, didn't get any further than that. Ghosting is the practise of ending a personal relationship with someone by suddenly and without explanation, withdrawing from all communication.

[00:00:47.940] - César (Guest)

Now that you read the definition, I think I might have ghosted someone. And actually, kind of recently.

[00:00:56.200] - Oliver (Host)

Okay, well, let's hear about that in a second then. But before then, welcome to English and Beyond, the advanced version of the podcast. As always, transcript, vocabulary flashcards, vocabulary learning games, available on our website, morethanlanguage.com. Back to your ghosting story, César.

[00:01:12.240] - César (Guest)

Yeah. Obviously, I didn't ghost a potential romantic partner. (I hope not.) But like a potential friend. Yeah. When you move to a new city, well, it's actually my city, my hometown, but I hadn't lived here for many years, so moving back home, meeting new people, you think you might become friends with someone, and that person, you just don't hit it off with that person. (You don't click.) You don't click.

[00:01:43.950] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, you don't hit it off, you don't click.

[00:01:46.020] - César (Guest)

So, it's very difficult to say, I don't want to be your friend, or I don't want to meet again. So I tried to be more subtle, postponing or saying, Oh, sorry, I'm busy.

[00:02:00.430] - Oliver (Host)

Maybe you've become too British now.

[00:02:02.040] - César (Guest)

Yeah, maybe. Then because this specific person I'm talking about didn't get it. In the end, I - it took me longer and longer to reply to their messages. I don't want to say if it's a man or a she.

[00:02:23.400] - Oliver (Host)

I still don't know who you're talking about because there are multiple candidates, because I think that this is the reality of - when you move to someone new, and I know exactly what you mean, because obviously I have also moved several times. When you are trying to make friends, it's a little bit like dating. You go on quite a lot of dates, quite a few dates, and you see whether there's a connection, whether the conversation flows, everything like that. It might be like there might be the situation that you think, Oh, I like this person. But actually, when it comes to it, you just can't be bothered because there are other things that you need to do that you're not willing, in a way, to (invest-) yeah, the time. And I think people will hear that a lot of the time and think that that is a serious judgement. Whereas obviously, I know it's actually happened to you as well the other way around. (Yeah, of course.) And it's obviously, it's probably happened to me lots of times. I haven't even realised. But you know, life is extremely busy and it doesn't mean that you are a less interesting person or whatever. It's just that there's not that connection for that particular person.

[00:03:32.840] - César (Guest)

Exactly. And I tried to be honest as well with a different person because I felt the same way. I mean, the thing is-

[00:03:42.170] - Oliver (Host)

You were pushed, to be honest, right? (Saying to someone-) Because this person sent you lots of passive-aggressive messages.

[00:03:47.520] - César (Guest)

This person said to me, So are you going to be able to meet up in the future at some point? I was like, You know what? I'm very busy. I even struggle to meet my dad sometimes, which is true. So I think this person got it.

[00:04:08.640] - Oliver (Host)

We can say for here, you were saying to him, If push comes to shove, the idea that if you push me into making a decision now, then I'm going to say no.

[00:04:23.240] - César (Guest)

Then I've been on the other side, of course. Romantically in the past, I've been ghosted, I think a couple of times.

[00:04:29.690] - Oliver (Host)

How did you feel? When you were on dating apps and stuff like that and people would ghost you, how do you feel about that?

[00:04:37.190] - César (Guest)

I didn't like it. I'd rather people are honest. When these two people were ghosting me, not replying to my messages or replying after a long time, I said to them, If you don't want to meet again, just tell me clearly so I don't keep going (Round in circles in your head.) Yeah, and I don't contact you. That's fine. I think it's better, to be honest, but it's not easy. (It's not easy.) To be on either side, to be honest.

[00:05:09.060] - Oliver (Host)

Well, because I was going to say, because you've asked these people, you were talking about your romantic history and where you've been ghosted, and you were asking these people in an upfront way, please be honest with me. But equally, I know from having spoken to you that you felt very uncomfortable when these people were asking the same of you in friendship, though I do think that there is a difference between friendship and romance in this I think that we're almost set up to expect rejection and romance, whereas in a way, it ironically hurts more with friendship.

[00:05:38.060] - César (Guest)

Yeah, and I've been ghosted with friends I was meeting here as well. They just stopped- (Replying.) Being interested in me, which is fine because the thing is, especially in your 30s and your 40s, you have less time. You are not as social as when you're in your 20s, where you're meeting people, new people all the time. I think it's absolutely fine. We need to be mature and understand that that doesn't mean that I'm less of a person or the person I  want to meet with is less of a person. Just like, we need to choose. I was thinking of first dates, the TV show, where they have dates with someone.

[00:06:17.400] - Oliver (Host)

They have blind dates, we say.

[00:06:18.730] - César (Guest)

Blind dates. And by the end of the dinner, the host or someone in the TV show ask them, Do you want to meet them again? Do you want to meet this person again? And they say yes or no. Or yes, maybe as a friend. So we should do that in real life. Like, Okay, should we meet again?

[00:06:36.840] - Oliver (Host)

Well, I think that I would absolutely hate it if someone said to me. (That'd be very rough.) I think that that would be the thing where I think If I were pushed into making that decision, I would say, No, thank you. Just to talk very quickly about another subset of dating. When on dating apps, because there is a difference, I suppose, between ghosting and just not replying. Some people, when they send someone a message and they don't reply because they're not interested, sometimes they'll be like, they'll send another message saying, Can you please just... It's polite to tell me you're not interested, and they want a formal acknowledgement of this person's lack of interest, whereas other people will just have the approach that if they're not interested, they just won't reply at all.

[00:07:21.120] - César (Guest)

A lack of an answer is an answer itself, right? Yeah. Again, I think I prefer honesty.

[00:07:29.480] - Oliver (Host)

You'd prefer someone to say to you, I'm not interested? Yeah. I definitely... I was totally fine with people just ignoring me.

[00:07:35.200] - César (Guest)

The thing is, have you ever been replaced in a relationship?

[00:07:43.960] - Oliver (Host)

No. With my first partner, we broke up and within a couple of months, my partner had started a new relationship, but there was no overlap at all. And then we got back together. There was no overlap either that way, but I think it was a closer run thing. That time, I think it was less of a gap. But no, I've never been replaced. (I was asking-)Who knows? Yet!

[00:08:16.460] - César (Guest)

Soon. I was asking you that because I think if you've been replaced and if your partner has been overlapping your relationship with someone else, that's very harsh. That's a very- (That's a different thing from ghosting.) That's a very difficult pill to take, to swallow. (Yeah, but that's a-) Yeah, but what I'm saying is, I think that made my skin thicker with ghosting and with accepting that people can choose me or cannot choose me?

[00:08:47.210] - Oliver (Host)

But I suppose my-

[00:08:48.040] - César (Guest)

That's fine. And that doesn't make me less valuable.

[00:08:51.720] - Oliver (Host)

But I think that if your skin is thick, you don't need people to tell you formally that they're not interested in the sense that, for example, in dating where people just ignore you. I'm totally fine with that. And it's not because my skin is thin and I don't want them to tell me. It's because I think it's a waste of their time to send a message saying, I'm not interested.

[00:09:11.880] - César (Guest)

I think it's like a job interview. It's better that they say, Sorry, thanks for applying to this position, but we're not looking for someone like you.

[00:09:20.220] - Oliver (Host)

That's better than just- That is a good thing to move on to because I think that that is the different thing about... Because I think that there is that professional ghosting as well. I think that that is less appropriate.

[00:09:34.240] - César (Guest)

Do you think people use ChatGPT to create templates for ghosting people?

[00:09:38.260] - Oliver (Host)

Definitely, because there have been some people... I'm on Reddit a lot, and there are people saying, Is this person using ChatGPT to break up with me. That kind of thing.

[00:09:47.800] - César (Guest)

They don't even care. They don't remove the last bit where ChatGPT asks you, Do you want me to create a different version? And you copy paste and send the whole thing.

[00:09:56.820] - Oliver (Host)

Would you like this in the cartoon form? (Yeah.) No, I think definitely people will be doing that because why wouldn't you? Also, there have been people who have talked about how charming and wonderful and funny someone was online. They met them in real life and it was a totally different person, basically, in terms of personality. They approached them about it and this person said, Yeah, while I was using artificial intelligence to flirt with you because I liked you so much. But in terms of going back to the jobs, I think that in a way that that... I suppose I feel the same way. I think, realistically, especially today's job climate, right? For the first rung, although, sorry, the first hurdle of the job application, the first round, I think it's quite reasonable for a company not to reply to you. It's annoyed me when they haven't replied to me in the past, but I can understand. But I think as soon as you're past the first round- Especially if you have the first real interview. Even if not, that is proper ghosting. But I think that that's different as well because one, it's professional rather than emotional.

[00:11:00.000] - Oliver (Host)

I think that that makes it you know you should have more... You have more processes in place. Secondly, the amount of effort that it takes to submit a job application is way more than it is to send someone a flirtatious text message.

[00:11:17.440] - César (Guest)

Yeah, I agree. Plus, in both cases, a company not giving you an answer or person ghosting you says a lot about them, about the company and about the person.

[00:11:29.680] - Oliver (Host)

Well, I suppose, yeah, it's actually the same thing that your mother, when she's giving you advice about it, will say, right, you're better off without them or you've dodged a bullet. You know, better not to work for a company that doesn't respect you, better not to go out with someone that doesn't care. But I suppose I'm probably... I don't think I've ever ghosted ghosted anyone. No, I have actually. Sorry. I've never ghosted anyone romantically. I don't think. It's hard to say because there are people that ghost after proper long term relationships and friendships, which I think that I couldn't do. But equally, I'm not sure. I'm not sure I'd be capable of basically saying to someone, I no longer want to be friends with you because of this, this, this, and that.

[00:12:16.460] - César (Guest)

What about ghosting a relative, a family member?

[00:12:21.600] - Oliver (Host)

I think I come from such an argument as a family that it would be difficult for ghosting because I think that that implies a just sudden disappearance, whereas I think I'd be more likely just to absolutely cut off contact with someone after a huge argument. Yeah, I think that my mum is quite a hard person in this regard. (She's Scottish.) She holds a grudge. I think I've probably inherited that. I think I probably could just basically be like, Well, my feelings are over, finished. My feelings are gone. So that's it. I don't know. We'll see. What about you with the family member? I think you're emotionally kinder than I am.

[00:13:07.580] - César (Guest)

I put up with them just because, obviously, (they're family) from a huge family and some people are super likeable, and some people are sometimes very unbearable, to be honest. But it's fine. It's also quite fun.

[00:13:22.200] - Oliver (Host)

But I think that's actually interesting because in your family, I don't think you would ghost as much because blood is thicker than water and you I need to sit together because you're family. But I actually think that your family is more tense than mine in many ways. Because in mine, basically, you've just stripped out all the people that you don't want to talk to. You just don't see them, don't see those cousins you're not interested in.

[00:13:42.940] - César (Guest)

We don't do that in Spain. Well, we do that when there is an inheritance, then people stop talking to each other because they fight over €1,000.

[00:13:54.460] - Oliver (Host)

But in Spain, it's very regulated, no? Yeah, but still-I guess the only thing you can do is ghost. It's just taking back a little bit of power, considering you can't even write your own will properly here, can you? Okay, well, thank you, César.

[00:14:11.300] - César (Guest)

You're very welcome. I enjoy talking about ghosting with you.

[00:14:15.860] - Oliver (Host)

One other thing that I forgot to say, actually, in terms of the research, that ghosting was in the preselection for the word of the year 2018. So we're only eight years late (Wow. Amazing.), discussing this topic. So we're like right with the zeitgeist with our discussion of ghosting.

[00:14:33.940] - César (Guest)

You can keep yourself up to date with us.

[00:14:36.200] - Oliver (Host)

If you, listener, enjoy politically current important topics, discussing the concept of ghosting, if you enjoy these things, then please remember to subscribe, follow, give us a review, etc. And comment.

[00:14:50.030] - César (Guest)

You know what? You can ghost us now, but you better go to morethanalanguage.com and practise with the games that Oliver has prepared because it's really good.

[00:15:00.000] - Oliver (Host)

How would that be ghosting us then? That would be engaging fully, deliberately, and positively.

[00:15:05.100] - César (Guest)

You can ghost us and just stop listening and not (Well, don't do that!) coming back or keep learning and reinforcing what you've learned. You said lots of interesting vocabulary, like hold a grudge, blood is thicker than water.

[00:15:21.120] - Oliver (Host)

Blood is thicker than water? (Yeah.) It sounded like you were saying bloody sticker or bloody stick in the water.

[00:15:26.960] - César (Guest)

Blood is thicker than water.

[00:15:28.800] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, blood is thicker than water. Okay, thank you very much. Bye-bye.

[00:15:32.320] - César (Guest)

Bye.