E55 The End of Language Learning

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[00:00:03.020] - Oliver (Host)

Have you ever asked yourself a question that once seemed absurd, but now feels very urgent - could a machine take my desk job? For years, artificial intelligence was something out of science fiction. It meant robots and films, futuristic predictions, or clever tricks like beating humans at chess. But in the past few years, AI has shifted from the margins to the mainstream. It writes emails, it drafts legal documents, it diagnosis illnesses, it creates music, and now it translates languages. And yes, it can even generate podcasts and podcasters, as you may have seen on YouTube. More on that later. Welcome back to English and Beyond Advanced, the podcast where we don't just teach English, we explore unusual, interesting, and sometimes weird ideas. I'm Oliver, an English, Spanish, and Latin teacher. If there's anything you don't understand or you want to practise the most difficult vocabulary, have a look at our free transcript and flashcards available at morethanlanguage.com. Today, we're diving into AI, not in abstract terms, but as something that directly affects me and my perennial guest, César, as podcasters and teachers. This week, Apple has announced that its new AirPods will include real-time translation, a feature that promises to make cross-cultural communication smoother than ever.

[00:01:25.980] - Oliver (Host)

The idea isn't completely new. Companies like Google and others have already experimented with ear buds that can translate on the spot, but Apple's entry into the field is likely to push the technology into the mainstream. For language learners, this raises both excitement and anxiety. On the one hand, instant translation could lower barriers to travel, business, and social interaction, allowing people to connect across languages without years of study. On the other, it invites a question that is perhaps more unsettling for me as a language teacher, in fact: if our devices can translate everything for us, what happens to the motivation to actually learn a foreign language? Perhaps the answer lies in recognising the limits of the technology. Translation can provide the words, but it cannot replace the cultural understanding, humour, nuance, or personal connection that comes with learning a language yourself. But many listeners may not find that a convincing reason to do the hard graft, the difficult work, involved in learning a language. And regardless, the topic raises uncomfortable but fascinating questions for many people and their professions. What happens to our work and careers when machines can do not just physical tasks, but cognitive and creative ones too?

[00:02:43.520] - Oliver (Host)

Which professions are most at risk? And how do we adapt if our own profession is one of them? Think about education. For decades, teachers seemed safe from automation. Learning was human, personal, and social. But now students can ask a chatbot to explain grammar, translate a phrase, or correct an essay instantly and for free. Does this make teachers less necessary, or does it make our role more important than ever as guides who provide context, motivation, and certain elements of cultural understanding that machines possibly can't replicate. Think also about creativity. A podcast is built on voice, storytelling, and personality. But AI can already imitate voices, summarise transcripts, even produce music and scripts. Could a future listener be unable to tell the difference between a human and a machine host? And if so, does that mean the end of independent creators or the beginning of a new collaboration where AI takes on the mechanical tasks and leaves the human space freer for ideas and reflection? Of course, there's the broader picture. Jobs in journalism, customer service, design, even law, are already being reshaped by AI tools. Some see this as a threat, mass unemployment, a shrinking middle class, a world where only those who own the technology benefit.

[00:04:10.540] - Oliver (Host)

Others see it as an opportunity, greater productivity, freedom from routine work, the chance to focus on tasks that require empathy, judgement, imagination. In our conversation today, we'll be candid about our own anxieties, the possibility that parts of our job could disappear, while also recognising the advantages as AI might bring. Although being myself, I imagine that I'm going to focus somewhat more on the negative. So that's what's ahead, a discussion about risk and possibility, loss and invention, fear and hope. And beneath it all, one central question: when machines learn to do what we do, what's left that is uniquely human?

[00:04:52.580] - César (Guest)

Do you mind, Oliver, if I drink some cold brew with some oat milk?

[00:04:59.300] - Oliver (Host)

No, I don't mind, César, no. How are you?

[00:05:03.260] - César (Guest)

I'm good. How are you?

[00:05:04.700] - Oliver (Host)

You're not good either. You're a liar. I'm at my wits' end.

[00:05:09.300] - César (Guest)

No, you're at your wits' end.

[00:05:11.830] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, I'm at the end of my tether.

[00:05:13.470] - César (Guest)

You're on the edge of a nervous breakdown.

[00:05:15.970] - Oliver (Host)

Slightly, yes. Actually, that is - not to do a little bit of cross-promotion - but that is to do with your latest episode, no? Is it the advanced or the intermediate podcast?

[00:05:26.340] - César (Guest)

The Advanced podcast.

[00:05:27.900] - Oliver (Host)

If you're an intermediate... Sorry, if you're a Spanishspeaker at an advanced level or native, then you can go and watch this episode about why we're annoyed, which is basically the trials and tribulations of living right now in Spain and dealing with...

[00:05:42.720] - César (Guest)

The title of the episode is something like the worst thing about Spain and how not to get scammed, how not to be ripped off in Spain.

[00:05:52.650] - Oliver (Host)

Which is an everyday battle, it seems.

[00:05:54.130] - Oliver (Host)

But you know what?

[00:05:55.440] - César (Guest)

Our mood would be so much better if we were AI hosts of this podcast.

[00:06:00.200] - Oliver (Host)

Well, actually, yes, I was going to say-

[00:06:02.080] - César (Guest)

We'd be well balanced.

[00:06:02.870] - Oliver (Host)

You're looking at that from a much more positive perspective than I'm going to because I was going to say, and while we're dealing with that, there are more problems in the future for us to look forward to. So this is the difference between glass half full, glass half empty. Because today, as you all know, if you've watched the little introductory speech and haven't skipped past it, we're talking about AI and specifically the impact it will have on, I was going to say us actually as teachers, but not just us, because as I've mentioned in the prologue, in the little introductory speech of this episode, Apple this week has just released its special live translation headphones or just announced this week, I think. And it's not actually the first company to do this, but because it's Apple, it therefore gets more attention than its competitors. And also probably more people soon have access to it because it is, I think, still one of the biggest telecommunications company in the world, I think, still. And one of the biggest companies, if not the biggest. And the other thing that has made us think about AI and its influence is because we have been aghast to see on YouTube some podcasts that not only is the podcast itself AI generated, but the hosts are AI generated as well.

[00:07:27.040] - Oliver (Host)

As you referred to at the beginning, you don't even need to be a real person anymore. And so you've got these on YouTube.

[00:07:35.100] - César (Guest)

Younger, more beautiful.

[00:07:36.610] - Oliver (Host)

Younger, hotter, more optimistic and positive.

[00:07:41.820] - César (Guest)

Very upbeating. They've got a very upbeating, life-affirming.

[00:07:45.760] - Oliver (Host)

Very what?

[00:07:46.700] - César (Guest)

Upbeating?

[00:07:47.760] - Oliver (Host)

Upbeating?

[00:07:48.610] - César (Guest)

Upbeating.

[00:07:50.840] - Oliver (Host)

Upbeat.

[00:07:51.740] - César (Guest)

Upbeat.

[00:07:52.700] - Oliver (Host)

Or uplifting.

[00:07:53.660] - César (Guest)

Uplifting or life affirming.

[00:07:55.500] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah.

[00:07:56.760] - César (Guest)

Feeling.

[00:07:58.400] - Oliver (Host)

To be honest, you would get that if you listen to an American English podcast anyway, because they naturally would be really upbeat and uplifting. But presumably, at least a part of you wants something dour and negative because you come here to this British English podcast. César, do you feel threatened by these kind of perfect AI podcasters that might replace you?

[00:08:21.960] - César (Guest)

I honestly don't feel threatened. Why?

[00:08:25.140] - Oliver (Host)

I think you should. Go on, you tell me. I genuinely think you should because I I'll tell you very quickly. Sorry again for interrupting you. But the reason I think you should feel threatened is because so many people in the comments don't even realise that they're AI, and I think they're still not very good. They're good, but they're not perfect, and soon they will be perfect. And so an AI podcaster can produce in 10 seconds what it takes you to, 10 hours, basically, from beginning to end, writing an episode, performing it, editing, everything like that. The process for us takes about 10 hours, and for them, it will take 10 minutes, 10 seconds.

[00:09:04.360] - César (Guest)

But I think the fact of some people not being able to recognise that someone is AI is more like a generational thing. I think younger people are more savvy in terms of working out if something is real or not. But...

[00:09:24.440] - Oliver (Host)

That assumes that they care as well.

[00:09:27.100] - César (Guest)

Which is good as well.

[00:09:28.320] - Oliver (Host)

No, what I mean is that maybe some people won't care. Maybe they're happy to learn from an AI.

[00:09:32.800] - César (Guest)

I actually tried to use AI, and it didn't really work. It didn't really grasp what I'm achieving when I'm trying to create an educational resource to learn Spanish in my case, and also be inspirational or encouraging or trying to put out some sort of content that make(s) people think, the content that I'm after when, when I'm learning a language. And I found that it's quite difficult to shape this kind of content. You also talk about, it is true with AI in the future, no one really would need to learn a language because we would be able to use the earphone, not the earplugs, the headphones.

[00:10:21.500] - Oliver (Host)

Airpods.

[00:10:21.500] - César (Guest)

The earpods. That could be Airpods, yeah, but the general...

[00:10:26.490] - Oliver (Host)

Oh, earphones.

[00:10:28.160] - César (Guest)

Headphones.

[00:10:29.000] - Oliver (Host)

Headphones or earphones. Yeah.

[00:10:31.020] - César (Guest)

You will be able to use the headphones and you will be able to translate what other people are saying to you and the other way around. But the thing is, most people who learn a language as an adult, they do it in the same way they learn how to make sourdough bread, or in the same way they want to learn how to knit. It's like they want to shape that skill.

[00:10:53.230] - Oliver (Host)

It's the process that matters.

[00:10:55.220] - César (Guest)

It's the process, exactly.

[00:10:57.740] - Oliver (Host)

But the thing is, the way I, I would represent my argument is that there is a number of people, let's say, that are currently learning languages now. Some of those people are learning languages not because of a love of learning language or a desire to have a challenge, but instead a necessity. And AI tools like the Airpods live translation, cut away at, you know, a portion of those people because the necessity no longer will exist for them because there will be good enough AI tools that they basically don't need to learn the language.

[00:11:29.760] - César (Guest)

And I think it's great. People will be able to use their time.

[00:11:33.100] - Oliver (Host)

Sure. But I mean...

[00:11:33.920] - César (Guest)

People who don't want to spend a lot of time investing time on education or learning a new language, they can use those resources and use it for something else.

[00:11:46.970] - César (Guest)

But you will lose those as a teacher. As a teacher, we will lose those students. And then in addition, even from the ones that enjoy learning a language, some of them will be like, Oh, I can do it for free with an AI tool or, Oh, I really like the style of this podcast. Soon it will be possible, for example, César, that they could put in a few of our episodes into an AI tool, and they will be able to generate an endless number of topics using us and our voices and our content.

[00:12:17.640] - César (Guest)

That's possible already.

[00:12:18.340] - Oliver (Host)

If they wanted to. And to do it very well for whatever topic they wanted to talk about. So let's say someone found us really interesting, but we have absolutely zero interest in, for example, American football, and they make us talk for 20 minutes at an advanced level.

[00:12:34.930] - César (Guest)

I'm super into American football, by the way. I'd be willing to talk about that for hours and hours and hours.

[00:12:40.700] - Oliver (Host)

Well, soon they'll be able to make you. That's I think the risk. You're losing the people that aren't interested in learning a language. And then even within the ones that are interested, it may be that it makes more sense for them, for the particulars of their case, to use AI.

[00:12:56.180] - César (Guest)

Yeah, of course, I'm not saying there's no risk or I'm not concerned at all. But after two years and understanding what language learners want as an adult, I'm not talking about teenagers or kids, you've got so much - this is a free resource to learn English, right? There's so much content out there. You can find - any work before AI, any question you want to clarify, you could do it with Google a few years ago. But still people want to learn and want to choose who they want to learn from. That's why some people pay for my and our courses in Spanish because they want to learn with us, even though that information is available, but they want the easiness of having the structure, information delivered by us

[00:13:52.580] - Oliver (Host)

In a way that they like.

[00:13:53.280] - César (Guest)

In a way they like because they know that will help them learn better and faster. I think that's the difference. That's why people want people. People, I'm hoping, will always want real people. I think the only issue is that in the future, some people might prefer AI, even though they know it's not real. Apparently, there are some people who prefer already having AI boyfriends and girlfriends.

[00:14:23.820] - Oliver (Host)

Well, I actually think that that's part of one of the things that makes me feel a bit better. I agree with what you said. I'm interested to see how the headphones work purely because I don't... I think it must be actually... I read a review today that said that was remarkably good. I can't visualise, I can't imagine how it will work because it feels like there's always going to be a barrier between you and the person you're dealing with, which means it must be a bit confusing. You must hear two things at once, even if the real voice is muffled, which is a little bit odd, I think, for the real person's voice to be muffled and for you to hear this computer voice instead. And with certain languages where they put important information at the end of the sentence, I don't know, for example, like German, if the verb is at the end of the sentence, I don't know how that can be translated live into English. I think that the way that you know live translators do it in diplomacy and things like that is that they will listen to the whole sentence and they then summarise.

[00:15:33.000] - Oliver (Host)

But I don't know. So maybe someone who listens and is working in this field could tell us. So there seem to be some obstacles to a truly seamless translation experience. But I'm kind of reassured by what you were saying about the girlfriends and the boyfriends, to be honest, because I think that not because I'm particularly worried or interested in that specific thing of having a fake AI boyfriend or girlfriend, but instead because I think it is representative of the fact that it won't just be teaching, but if AI becomes this powerful, my past career as a lawyer and then my job as a teacher in a school, I think that especially the lawyer, could be totally under threat because I would love to know what it's like for banking lawyers like I was now to be working with AI, because I would spend a whole day, day and a half sometimes, just redrafting the, you know, a big loan agreement.

[00:16:32.040] - César (Guest)

Researching, redrafting, which AI does very well.

[00:16:34.840] - Oliver (Host)

Well, yeah. So you'd make the change to one bit, and then you'd have to go through and make sure that you caught all the other threads of where something else in the contract would be changed because of a change that you were making under negotiation. And so that was a massive job involving quite a lot of thought power. And now you can do that in two seconds. So I'm curious about what will happen to all sorts of industries.

[00:16:56.460] - César (Guest)

I mean, it's clear that it's a revolution, and the industrial revolution might affect some jobs more than others. But for example, we are, we've been using ChatGPT a lot to research topics about the law in Spain. But every single time we were like, Okay, we're getting the overall of this topic, but we will eventually need a lawyer if we want to act on this topic. Like, it's good to research.

[00:17:26.940] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, but ChatGPT is just starting. Imagine, imagine if it gets good enough that OpenAI, the company behind ChatGPT, starts offering formal legal services.

[00:17:36.380] - César (Guest)

I don't see it as something that is totally unrealistic.

[00:17:41.420] - Oliver (Host)

It will be so big and so good at its job, especially for the more basic things, that it will probably just be able to pay out with this insurance if anything ever goes wrong, actually, probably more successfully than a law firm. But I don't know. I think it'll be genuinely an interesting thing to witness.

[00:18:02.180] - César (Guest)

In that case, many lawyers will need to retrain and do a career shift. Like you, you did that. They might become podcasters as well.

[00:18:12.960] - Oliver (Host)

Well, I did it out of choice, not out of necessity, which means that I wasn't, I didn't feel under a huge amount of pressure to get a new job, if that makes sense. If every lawyer in the world or most lawyers in the world basically all find themselves without a job, as, alongside loads of other industry workers, that could be quite interesting. So, listener, if you are a real person and not an AI yourself, tell us what you think. Do you feel like I don't think that the job is going to be under threat in the future from AI?

[00:18:49.040] - César (Guest)

Especially, will you replace us for an AI-generated host?

[00:18:55.180] - Oliver (Host)

Well, some listeners may suspect that we have already been replaced. No, because as we have mentioned before, when we started the English, the Spanish podcast, Spanish for False Beginners, and I wasn't using my face, people thought I was AI. As it becomes easier and easier, maybe we'll just... we'll get AI to do it.

[00:19:14.940] - César (Guest)

We are too messy and, to be AI? AI would be more well put together.

[00:19:22.000] - Oliver (Host)

Maybe we're an AI with a very good prompt: you know, "Be a bit, be a bit (beep)." Realistic. "Do an episode, but not very well."

[00:19:29.720] - César (Guest)

Make it more realistic.

[00:19:31.820] - Oliver (Host)

Well, listen, thank you very much for listening. If you have liked it and you want to help us fight off the threat of AI, review, share. Anything else? Subscribe.

[00:19:44.250] - César (Guest)

Are you okay?

[00:19:44.890] - Oliver (Host)

No, those are all the different things, right? Yeah. Okay, thank you for listening.

[00:19:48.950] - César (Guest)

Thank you.

[00:19:49.630] - Oliver (Host)

Bye-bye.

[00:19:50.270] - César (Guest)

Ciao.