E52 Learning English Abroad? The HONEST Truth About Immersion Trips...

52.

Download • 190KB

Quizlet Flashcards: click here for link to vocabulary cards from this episode

[00:00:02.920] - Oliver (Host)

The idea of language immersion holidays is an exciting concept. These are fortnight or month long breaks where you go to another country to learn the language in a school there and you imagine yourself transforming. Can you picture it now? You land in London or Sydney or Vancouver. You unpack, you walk down a leafy street, you find a charming café, and you sit outside with a and within a few days, you're speaking fluently. You've suddenly got loads of lovely native friends, and you're out for brunch with them. You're telling a story, a funny one, in English! The group laughs, even the waiter chuckles. Not because you've made a mistake, but because your timing was so good. And you even made a pun. You feel confident, you feel sophisticated, you feel just like yourself, but now in English. This is the dream of immersion: not just that you survive in the language, but that you shine in it. You're not just buying a croissant, you've got banter with the barista. You're not just understanding TV, you're critiquing the plot in real-time with your local friends. You've become, in your head at least, effortlessly bilingual. But sadly, that's just the dream.

[00:01:24.300] - Oliver (Host)

And in real life, that brunch would probably include a few more moments where that smiling waiter, for example, suddenly turns to you and says, "All right, love - one lump or two?" Lump? Lump of what? Lump where? Are they insulting me - am I the lump? You laugh nervously. Everyone else knows exactly what he means - only you do not. You panic, you nod, eyes wide, and you end up with two huge sugar lumps in your very British cup of tea that you didn't want, and a creeping sense of embarrassment. Because this - this! - is what immersion really looks like. Immersion courses sound like magic. You imagine that being surrounded by English, you'll just absorb it. You'll wake up bilingual as effortlessly as getting a tan from lying on the beach. But immersion is not automatic. It's not a spell. It's just a different kind of hard work. Still, it's very easy to understand the appeal. You don't just want to learn English, you want to live it, to feel it, to end up thinking in it, to build relationships in the language. This is why we're learning languages after all, to end up comfortably communicating with people from other places. And that's why immersion feels exciting.

[00:02:45.760] - Oliver (Host)

It promises fluency through life, not through grammar drills. At advanced levels, that emotional side of language becomes more important. You've got the tenses, you've learned the conditionals - now you want to connect. You want to joke, you want to flirt, to persuade, to complain, to express surprise, to be sarcastic, all the things that make you sound like you. And immersion seems like the fastest way to get there. But then there's the reality. Immersion is tiring. Even when you're just ordering lunch, for example, it's an effort. Your brain is interpreting constantly, and it never gets to switch off like if you're doing language lessons at home. It's not just the words, but the tone, the context, the facial expressions. You're 'on' all the time, and the pressure to use the language can feel intense. You want to say something clever, but your grammar brain isn't fast enough. You want to join the conversation with your new friends, but someone changes topic before you finish practising your sentence in your head. You feel like you're constantly five seconds behind everyone else, and suddenly, you're silent - again. It's easy need to romanticise these residential trips, but you can end up frustrated, tired, regretting all the money, and even a bit lonely, especially if you expected progress to come quickly.

[00:04:12.660] - Oliver (Host)

And then there's the practical side. Lots of people do immersion study abroad holidays with the idea that they'll learn for a few hours a day, then work as usual, for example, in the afternoons. They'll go to the gym, they'll cook healthy meals, they'll write their novel, and they'll even meet locals in the evening. In reality, the classes are exhausting. The travel to school takes much longer than you thought. You're constantly sweaty. Your brain hurts from living in another language all day. And by the time you sit down in the afternoon to do some work on your day job, you basically just want a good nap. What I'm trying to emphasise is that it's not effortless. It's not always even efficient. But when it works, even in small moments, it's incredibly motivating. Some people thrive in that environment of being constantly challenged with every moment of the day. They enjoy the risk, the discomfort, the new people, the uncertainty. Others need more structure or maybe gaps in each day between the periods where they feel out of their depth linguistically. They need more help navigating an experience like that, they need more support. The truth is, these immersion holidays don't suit everyone, and it depends on your level, your goals, your time, and your personality.

[00:05:32.740] - Oliver (Host)

But if you can find a version of it that works for you, something that can give you regular and rich exposure to English, it can take your learning somewhere no textbook can. This week, César and I have been doing an immersion course, not in English, of course, but in French. And in this episode, we're going to be talking honestly about that experience, what's worked, what hasn't, and what we've learned from being students again in a new country and in a new language. If you've ever thought about doing something similar, whether that's a summer course or a study abroad programme or just a few weeks in an English-speaking country, then stick around. We've got some opinions and perspectives that might push you decisively into either direction. But before you start with the chat, if you enjoy the podcast, please consider leaving a review for us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. We would hugely appreciate it. Let's get into our a little chat.

[00:06:31.300] - Oliver (Host)

Welcome back to English and Beyond, the advanced-level version of the podcast.

[00:06:36.560] - Oliver (Host)

As always, we have a free transcript available at...

[00:06:41.100] - César (Guest)

Morethanalanguage.com

[00:06:43.440] - Oliver (Host)

...as well as vocabulary flashcards, which help you to practise the words, the phrases, the idioms, everything that you'll hear in today's episode. So, César, as you will not know because you haven't listened to my little speech, today, we're going to be talking about immersing yourself in a language. Okay, good. Yeah, which makes sense. We've already done a very similar episode in Spanish, but we are... Well, where are we, César?

[00:07:11.490] - César (Guest)

This is the south, well, south-east of France, I suppose.

[00:07:16.900] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah.

[00:07:17.720] - César (Guest)

We are in Montpellier. Beautiful city.

[00:07:18.600] - Oliver (Host)

Incredibly beautiful city.

[00:07:22.560] - César (Guest)

I told you last night when we were having a glass of wine in (on) a terrace, it does feel like being in a movie, like in a Woody Allen movie.

[00:07:32.780] - Oliver (Host)

Well, it feels exactly - it feels like a stereotypical American's idea of what Europe is like. And obviously, that is not what Europe is usually like.

[00:07:41.130] - César (Guest)

But Montpellier is.

[00:07:42.320] - Oliver (Host)

Montpellier really is. It's a couple of different things. Firstly, obviously, being British and being very British, you know, I'm - being in France, you instinctively walk around and you're ready to be dismissive of everything because it's France, obviously, the old enemy of the UK. And so you're looking around and someone will say, "Oh, isn't this beautiful? Isn't the wine amazing?" You're like, "I suppose." But actually, it really is incredible.

[00:08:09.940] - César (Guest)

It is very difficult to criticise the city.

[00:08:12.480] - Oliver (Host)

Impossible.

[00:08:13.290] - César (Guest)

The people living in it as well.

[00:08:16.580] - Oliver (Host)

So patient. Because we're here, as we're going to talk about, we're here to learn French.

[00:08:22.140] - César (Guest)

Are we?

[00:08:24.120] - Oliver (Host)

And we do... Well, we'll talk about some of the problems of coming to a country to speak its language. But people, generally speaking, here are incredibly patient with people learning French. And in a way, it's surprising to me because one of the things that we've observed is that hardly anyone here is not French.

[00:08:45.950] - César (Guest)

Yeah, most people, I think it's a touristic city, but from nationals. People from other places in France come here because there's a beach and all that, and it's a very nice city, very beautiful. But it is true. We hear mostly French on the streets. And so the experience of immersion is quite real. It's not like going to Barcelona to learn Spanish, for example, where obviously you will hear Spanish most of the times (time), but it's full of tourists from all around the world, and it's more like being in an amusement park rather than being in a Spanish city.

[00:09:23.800] - Oliver (Host)

Which is ironic because as we said already, Montpellier feels like it could be an amusement park in the sense that it is so stereotypically pretty, and yet it feels kind of real.

[00:09:35.940] - César (Guest)

Another thing I told you yesterday as well, I feel it's not gentrified. Well, at least it's very little gentrified.

[00:09:45.260] - Oliver (Host)

There's very little gentrification.

[00:09:47.060] - César (Guest)

Yeah. Like, you've got many... You don't see any Starbucks. You don't see many-

[00:09:53.040] - Oliver (Host)

There probably is one.

[00:09:54.120] - César (Guest)

You don't see many American chains. It's mostly local shops, local bakeries, local cafés, which, to be honest, is very nice to see because in Spain, almost every single city is getting more and more gentrified. It's very pleasant to walk around a city that still feels local and authentic.

[00:10:16.890] - Oliver (Host)

I would say for me, personally, more than gentrified, I would maybe say something like homogenised or monotonous, where everything, in every British city and every Spanish city now, it's the same shops, it's the same restaurants, the same chain restaurants, everything like that. And here, it doesn't seem to have impacted, but maybe this is because of the famous, I don't know, French resistance to...

[00:10:42.860] - César (Guest)

That's good.

[00:10:43.940] - Oliver (Host)

Anglo influence, and also - I think the French are averse to the conditions of things getting worse, no? Or at least in a - they attempt to do that. Whereas I think in the UK, we kind of like welcome...

[00:11:06.700] - César (Guest)

Any change.

[00:11:07.980] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, international influence and everything like that more than here. That's just my perception, it's probably wrong. French people watching will be able to tell me that it's wrong. But yeah, that's my impression. And it seems to be the case in Montpellier, at least. And it's also true in Toulouse as well, where we were for one night before we came here.

[00:11:24.720] - César (Guest)

Yeah, that's true.

[00:11:25.870] - Oliver (Host)

That it's also got a lack of chain restaurants, et cetera. Yeah. So we've come to learn French, César. How has your experience been of that?

[00:11:39.860] - César (Guest)

Well, we are attending French school.

[00:11:44.680] - Oliver (Host)

We've done almost a week now.

[00:11:46.060] - César (Guest)

Yeah.

[00:11:46.940] - Oliver (Host)

Three hours a day.

[00:11:47.690] - César (Guest)

Three hours a day, which it might seem not that much, but it's quite intensive.

[00:11:52.600] - Oliver (Host)

You, I think, are struggling with it more than me because every time I look over at you, you're like (*dies*) on the table.

[00:11:59.630] - César (Guest)

I mean, I don't like...

[00:12:00.640] - Oliver (Host)

Needing a coffee.

[00:12:01.610] - César (Guest)

I don't like criticising colleagues, like French teachers in this case. But I think if you're in a classroom with only six people, which is a very small group, you can do more than just going through a list of connectors or tenses and go one by one. I don't know, give me context. Let's do role plays, let's do games, let's do other stuff, more dynamic. I get I'm learning more than if I weren't doing anything, of course, but I would need more... Ideally, I prefer more dynamic exercises and more dynamic practises.

[00:12:45.660] - Oliver (Host)

I think I'm quite different from you. Obviously, I thrive when doing boring grammar lessons.

[00:12:51.530] - César (Guest)

Because you're a grammar geek.

[00:12:53.200] - Oliver (Host)

And you pointedly looked up on your laptop in front of me, "What's the French for teacher's pet?"

[00:13:00.000] - César (Guest)

Yeah, exactly. "Chouchou."

[00:13:03.920] - Oliver (Host)

I feel the other way, actually. I feel a little bit too engaged in comparison to the other people because I feel a bit embarrassed because the teacher...you know, it's - even though we're adults, it reminds me a bit of being a teacher in a secondary school where if it's a particularly hot day in July before the school year has ended and you're trying to get the kids still learning and you ask a question and no one responds. It's a bit like that, except that I am responding, but I feel like I'm responding to basically every question. I don't know whether it's because other people don't want to respond or because they want to take their time.

[00:13:43.800] - César (Guest)

Or they don't know the answer.

[00:13:44.880] - Oliver (Host)

But they're probably just rolling their eyes every time that I'm putting up my hand.

[00:13:49.960] - César (Guest)

They do sometimes. No, I'm not kidding.

[00:13:51.890] - Oliver (Host)

After the class, do you all meet to have a coffee and complain?

[00:13:54.450] - César (Guest)

Another thing that doesn't help at all is, it's July. Our lessons is (are) from 2/3pm, to 5pm or so - there's no aircon in the classroom, which doesn't help to keep me awake either. It's suffocating. But obviously, I'm learning and I'm also learning because then when we come back to the apartment, we watch something in French, and I'm really happy that I'm able to understand 75% of the things that I read, because I read the subtitles, and on the street, you practise your French every now and then, just in the restaurant or in a café or whatever, but it's like pleasant and people are very patient. Sometimes they reply in English, but it's okay.

[00:14:44.500] - Oliver (Host)

Or once in Spanish.

[00:14:45.740] - César (Guest)

Once in Spanish yesterday, yeah, when I was buying my ice cream. How are you finding the immersion process?

[00:14:55.420] - Oliver (Host)

I'm really enjoying being here, and I find it very motivating. You know, I started learning French because of you, obviously, because you chose French in our competition. And so I was really only learning the language, not because of a love of French or a particular interest in French culture. Terrible, though, that is to say, that I was just learning a language through toxic competition. But I actually am really enjoying being here. I'm really enjoying being in the south of France. I really like the south of France.

[00:15:30.000] - César (Guest)

Do you want to move here?

[00:15:31.160] - Oliver (Host)

It wouldn't surprise me if we ended up living here at some point because it's got a lot of the things that I love about Spain, but the weather is not as intolerable. Like, it's hot, but for me, it's not as bad as in Valencia.

[00:15:45.280] - César (Guest)

It's less humid, but it's quite hot.

[00:15:47.300] - Oliver (Host)

In Valencia, I feel like I'm constantly walking around in the shower.

[00:15:51.120] - Oliver (Host)

And your hair, your hair gets very frizzy because of the humidity.

[00:15:55.220] - Oliver (Host)

That is not, that's not high up on the list of problems for me in terms of choosing a place to live. I do actually really enjoy it here. I'm really enjoying - every, every French person that I've spoken to has been so lovely. I know that is not, it shouldn't really be that remarkable.

[00:16:13.360] - César (Guest)

Well, it's surprising!

[00:16:15.840] - Oliver (Host)

It's just that it's so different from my experiences in Paris. Like, every time I went to Paris, it was difficult.

[00:16:23.370] - César (Guest)

Why?

[00:16:25.100] - Oliver (Host)

People were just mean. I think that because it's such a busy city, it's the most visited city in the world, isn't it?

[00:16:32.720] - Oliver (Host)

People don't have time for your (censored).

[00:16:35.240] - Oliver (Host)

Like, I have so much to do. I don't have time to listen to you stumbling through, ordering a coffee and a croissant in French. And so I don't blame the good people of Paris, but I do feel a lot happier here, to be honest.

[00:16:52.550] - César (Guest)

Fair enough, fair enough.

[00:16:53.740] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, so...and it just, I don't know. It seems like a lovely place to live. So it's definitely on my list of places where I could live one day.

[00:17:03.140] - César (Guest)

Let's start looking for a flat.

[00:17:05.180] - Oliver (Host)

The one thing that I would say, though, is that I think that we thought that this would be a very, like basically, a working holiday, that we would do our ordinary jobs and we would do the French lessons and we'd go to the gym and we would live our usual lives as well as being able to see the things that Montpellier has to offer. But it's totally not been like that at all, because when you factor in three hours of French lessons, walking time.

[00:17:33.300] - César (Guest)

Which is like a part-time job, more or less.

[00:17:35.470] - Oliver (Host)

Basically, we've got almost nothing done outside of that. And if you do any homework or you try to, don't know, watch a film or read a book in French or something to consolidate what you're learning, you basically have no time to do the things that you need to do, like your job.

[00:17:51.660] - César (Guest)

That's true.

[00:17:52.160] - Oliver (Host)

It's been horrendously inefficient. So if anyone is considering doing a residential language course and thinking, I'll be able to work remotely, at least in our experience, it's been impossible.

[00:18:01.760] - César (Guest)

Try to take some time off work.

[00:18:04.780] - Oliver (Host)

To enjoy it properly.

[00:18:06.210] - César (Guest)

And talking about homework. Have you done yours? Because I haven't done mine for today.

[00:18:11.240] - Oliver (Host)

What was it?

[00:18:12.080] - César (Guest)

Passive voice.

[00:18:12.660] - Oliver (Host)

Oh, I did it in the class. So yeah, I finished already.

[00:18:18.280] - César (Guest)

The perfect student. L'élève parfait.

[00:18:23.280] - Oliver (Host)

Wow...anyway, moving on. French people will be like, "What did he say?"

[00:18:33.860] - César (Guest)

My accent is from Paris.

[00:18:36.100] - Oliver (Host)

Exactly. Very good. So listener, thank you very much for listening to this episode. This special episode from Montpellier.

[00:18:46.160] - César (Guest)

Merci beaucoup.

[00:18:48.460] - Oliver (Host)

Yes, thank you. Anything else you want to say? I know it's monotonous.

[00:18:55.540] - César (Guest)

Subscribe. Subcribe. Follow.

[00:18:58.660] - Oliver (Host)

Exactly that. I know it's-

[00:19:00.000] - César (Guest)

Suivre! (Suivez).

[00:19:00.330] - Oliver (Host)

I was just about to say, I know it's monotonous. I know it's tedious. I know it's a cliché, but please do follow the podcast and leave a nice review because it helps other people to find the podcast and makes it more viable for us to continue. Thank you for listening.

[00:19:19.910] - César (Guest)

Bye.

[00:19:20.590] - Oliver (Host)

Bye-bye. You're not going to say, "Au revoir?"

[00:19:23.690] - César (Guest)

Au revoir. À bientôt.