E65: Friendship at First Sight

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[00:00:00.000] - Oliver (Host)

Making new friends as an adult is notoriously hard. Most adult friendships probably begin in predictable places. The workplace, a hobby group, a language class, perhaps. You see the same people every week. You exchange small talk. You slowly share bits of your life. And if you're lucky, after months or even years, something real develops. But it's not easy. We're all busy, We all have our own routines, our own lives. And building a genuine friendship requires time, attention, and a emotional energy that, frankly, isn't always available. And even when it does work, life can get in the way. Someone changes jobs, move city, or even leaves the country. Reflecting on that, maybe people are just desperate to get away from me, from my friendship. But anyway, occasionally, strangely, the opposite also happens. You meet someone new, you speak for half an hour, and somehow you feel more natural with them than with some people you've known for years. Why does that happen? Why are some friendships slow and effortful, while others appear strong almost immediately? In today's episode, we're exploring that contrast, the difficulty of making friends as adults, and the rare moments when connection feels effortless.

[00:01:28.360] - Oliver (Host)

Welcome to English and Beyond, the podcast for advanced English learners who want to explore real and interesting and often quite odd ideas in natural British English. My name is Oliver. I am an English teacher from the UK, from London. Quickly before I start my conversation with César, I want to thank a viewer for their feedback on my last intermediate-level episode, which was about some of the unexpected emotions involved in moving house. Berre, Berre, I'm not sure how it's pronounced, I'm sorry, wrote on YouTube, I love how you express your emotions about that one box. I watched it with a smile on my face because I feel the exact same way about those objects that we never want to leave. Thank you very much to Berre, Berre, for your comment. I appreciate you taking the time to write to me. For all of my listeners, I'm not sure that this episode will be quite so emotionally engaging, but if you do enjoy it or you find it useful, I would be really grateful if you could leave a review, a rating, or even follow me. As always, you can follow along with a free transcript and vocabulary flashcards for this episode at www.morethanalanguage.com. Let's begin the episode.

[00:02:44.580] - César (Guest)

So, Oliver, we're going to talk about friendship crushes, I suppose.

[00:02:50.930] - Oliver (Host)

Well, just friendship in general, I suppose. The idea really was that I'm doing for next week an intermediate episode of the, of the podcast on Love at First Sight. And while I was planning that, while I was writing it, I was trying to decide about how I incorporate friendship or not into that. And we just got back from a weekend in Seville. We basically hung out with our fellow language teachers who also do podcasts and things like that. (And YouTube.) And YouTube, yeah, exactly. So I guess it was a work meeting.

[00:03:33.960] - César (Guest)

Yeah, it was a work meeting as well because we talked about the type of job that we do. (Exactly.) It's quite particular.

[00:03:41.290] - Oliver (Host)

We talked about it a lot because it makes sense, right, you know - it's very rare that you meet someone who is doing the same job as you in this kind of industry. So we talked a lot about it. But more than that, you'd met these people, too, once each before, I think, maybe a couple of times. I had never met them, but I thought that they were great. I loved them. I thought they were really interesting. We basically spent three whole days solidly with them. And so, when I was writing this episode about love at first sight, I thought about this concept of friendship at first sight. I'm not going to call the episode that, I don't know what I'm going to call it, but we're going to talk a little bit about that.

[00:04:19.900] - César (Guest)

It is so that I have met these people, these two teachers, and now as well, their partners once. But this time in Seville, this long weekend, we got to know them better. (Yeah.) Or I got to know them better because we spent a lot of time together. It didn't feel like we were forced to hang out with them. We really wanted to. You could tell that they felt also very comfortable with us. And in fact, it was a shame that... It is a shame that we live so far away from each other because otherwise, I think they could become a great group of friends in our life.

[00:05:02.930] - Oliver (Host)

Sure. I mean, if you're learning, I'm just going to include their names in this podcast episode in case you're learning Spanish and don't want to buy from us, our Spanish courses. So it's Andalusian Spanish with Antonio.

[00:05:15.880] - César (Guest)

Yeah, it's, no, it's Spanish with Antonio. (Spanish with Antonio.) He teaches Spanish, but specifically, he teaches the type of Spanish that is spoken in Andalusia.

[00:05:26.090] - Oliver (Host)

Which is the biggest region, the most populated region in Spain. And then Mar, who also comes from Andalusia, but her focus is on the Spanish language exams.

[00:05:38.300] - César (Guest)

Exactly. The DELE. And her project is called A Por el Dele.

[00:05:43.070] - Oliver (Host)

Exactly. Actually, it is possible that people listening will want to buy maybe a course specialising one of these things or just they love their kind of vibe because quite a lot of our listeners actually do learn Spanish because they came here to the English podcasts from our Spanish podcasts with Spanish Language Coach. So, one of the reasons - you were actually talking about, you said it was obvious that they liked us. (I think so.) We hope so.

[00:06:13.260] - César (Guest)

They both sent lovely messages to me, you know, after we left.

[00:06:17.200] - Oliver (Host)

Have you replied? Because maybe if you reply and you only get one tick. It was kind of like, lovely to meet you. Let's never see each other again.

[00:06:25.260] - César (Guest)

Let's keep it short and sweet.

[00:06:27.350] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, we'll always treasure these memories. Let's not sully them with a further friendship. (Please do not contact me again.) No, but I think that they did enjoy our company. And mostly the reason I think that is because I think I'm quite a strange person. (You are.) I think you're quite a strange person. (Am I?) But I think most people think that they're strange people, so I don't think that that's actually that common, uncommon, sorry. But I think most people at their core think that they are odd people. But one of the things that I think I'm quite strange about is that I have a very bad social filter in the sense that I find it very hard to hide my feelings and not be incredibly honest way too early on in the friendship. And Mar actually said to me at one point, where she was like, You are very honest.

[00:07:14.600] - César (Guest)

She said something along the lines of, I like your...I've got trouble pronouncing this word. I like your vulnerability. (Vulnerability.) Vulnerability. It's very refreshing.

[00:07:31.880] - Oliver (Host)

But she was quite funny because then she was actually equally... (Yeah, she opened up.) I think she probably would have done anyway because I think she's an equally honest and maybe oddly honest person.

[00:07:41.480] - César (Guest)

But that happens. It's funny how sometimes with friends that you've met for a very long time.,Friends that you've known for a very long time.

[00:07:49.640] - Oliver (Host)

That you met a long time ago.

[00:07:52.370] - César (Guest)

Sometimes you have this type of relationship where you meet them very often, you go on holidays with them, but you don't get, you have very profound conversations with them and then with people that you've just met because you feel that you can be vulnerable and you can open up, you do it. It was your case this last weekend. And it's quite interesting to see how for some reason, some people, you, they come across like, people, very trustworthy and you feel like you can say anything, which is quite good.

[00:08:27.660] - Oliver (Host)

To be honest, not to disagree with you, because I'm sure that what you said is true for lots of people. But I actually don't think I have any friends, really, that I don't have a very honest relationship with. Just because I think that if I don't feel comfortable enough to be vulnerable, which sounds very kind of like, very new age. If I don't feel comfortable with someone enough to actually be very honest, then I think that that means I've not got great chemistry with that person. And I think one of the things I really liked about this weekend, about these new friends about the thing that inspired this, this theme, this idea, was because I felt instantly very comfortable with them. What makes you feel comfortable with someone new?

[00:09:11.100] - César (Guest)

I think the sense of humour makes a huge difference to me. Like, I was telling you that since we moved to Spain, we met some people together or separately. And when I meet someone new and I share the same sense of humour, we just find funny, the different, the same things. I think that makes me closer to the person very quickly.

[00:09:42.000] - Oliver (Host)

To be absolutely honest with you, I was really waiting for you to finish that answer because as soon as I asked the question, I was like, actually, there's something I want to know more, which is - very characteristic - what really puts you off in a person? When you first meet someone and you're like, don't want to be friends with this person?

[00:09:58.160] - César (Guest)

My answer might be quite contradictory. Since I've got like five, six podcasts, I forget how many.

[00:10:08.540] - Oliver (Host)

I know what it's going to be. Someone who talks about themselves. Yeah. That is I'm just imagining you go for a coffee with a new person and they open their mouth to say something. You're like, No, I haven't finished.

[00:10:23.080] - César (Guest)

Exactly. Sometimes I had meetings with people I recently met just for a coffee thinking that that person might be my next friend. This person just goes over and over and over (on and on and on) about their life without asking me anything about mine. I'm like, Okay. This happens as well with dates, I think. You leave the place thinking, Well, I know a lot about this person, but they don't know about me because they haven't shown any interest. They didn't leave me space to say anything about my life or about my experiences. So yeah I think that's one thing that because obviously, when you are, when you're getting to know someone, you want to find out about that person, but you also want to see how they react about your experiences, your life in general. So yeah, that's probably one of the things. Obviously, if someone is rude or something like that, that puts me off. Of course. Very quickly.

[00:11:33.540] - Oliver (Host)

But I guess they don't consider themselves rude. I suppose different people have different definition of rudeness, don't they? Yeah. Interesting. (What about you?) Well, I've read a very cynical - just to say a comment on yours a little bit first - I read a very cynical, a few times, I think, a cynical account of what conversation is. Basically, the idea that it's listening to someone else talking and waiting, not really listening, waiting for them to finish so that you can say what you want to say. I suppose that that is the complaint that you're making there, to a degree. I'm not saying that you're sitting there in every conversation saying, I wish this person would stop talking about their own (news?) so I can talk about me. But that is a cynical kind of account of what some conversations, some society is.

[00:12:18.300] - César (Guest)

That happens very often. I agree. I try to not to do that. I try to listen attentively.

[00:12:25.960] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, you are a good listener.

[00:12:27.230] - César (Guest)

And ask questions about... Because I am genuinely interested in people's life.

[00:12:32.860] - Oliver (Host)

People's lives.

[00:12:33.880] - César (Guest)

In people's life.

[00:12:35.100] - Oliver (Host)

Lives.

[00:12:35.860] - César (Guest)

Lives. I am genuinely interested in people's lives.

[00:12:42.480] - Oliver (Host)

I'm not going to edit that.

[00:12:43.710] - César (Guest)

Yeah, that's fine. I think because I used to be very shy, I consider myself an introvert, I used to listen way more than I spoke.

[00:12:57.540] - Oliver (Host)

Well, they do say that you have two ears and one mouth, so you should listen twice as much as you speak.

[00:13:03.350] - César (Guest)

Actually, both our mothers say the same thing to us, which is the same piece of advice.

[00:13:09.720] - Oliver (Host)

Basically, zip it, be quiet, don't tell people things unnecessarily. But yeah, my mum totally failed with me. No, it is a problem because sometimes I walk away from having met someone new and I say to you, Oh, God, I really wish I had said these things about myself. But nevermind.

[00:13:30.580] - César (Guest)

It's not like you were drunk and you opened up. No, you can open up and be an oversharer over a coffee.

[00:13:40.540] - Oliver (Host)

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I'm not even drinking at the moment, am I? Well, I don't drink now. Again. Yeah, so it's definitely, I can't blame on alcohol. I think it's just me. But to answer your question about what I don't like, and you can probably guess actually, what do I hate? What do I loathe...(?)

[00:13:57.180] - César (Guest)

You hate, you loathe when a friend tells you what to do or how you should feel about something. You hate when you're venting to someone, you're letting things off your chest.

[00:14:11.300] - Oliver (Host)

You're getting things off your chest.

[00:14:12.790] - César (Guest)

You're getting things off your chest. Thank you. And this person is like, Okay, what you should do is this and this and this, because you just want to be listened to.

[00:14:23.420] - Oliver (Host)

If I'm venting, yeah, because I think in general, I actually don't like talking about the details of my life that much with friends. I prefer to listen to them me about their lives, partially because I do absolutely hate it when people tell me what to do. As you say, I (So am I correct?) Yeah, 100%. I loathe it when people give me unsolicited opinions. I don't mind. There are a lot of people in my life that they can give me all the opinions they want, and I'm totally happy to hear it because they know enough about the situation, and I really respect their thinking. But I hate it with a passion when someone who doesn't know what they're talking about tells me how I should feel about something, and I have to sit there politely and go, Yeah, maybe you're right. (You don't even pretend.) I've gotten worse at it. Yeah, I've gotten worse at it now because I used to be able to pretend, but now I can't. I think that when you move to somewhere new and you basically are, you're auditioning people to be friends with you, and they're auditioning people to be friends with you.

[00:15:24.410] - Oliver (Host)

They're auditioning you to be friends with them. I hate it. And I also I hate it, when, and this is, I don't know if there's some inconsistency here with the things I've said already, but sometimes when people say to me, considering how much I like to be honest anyway, sometimes people try to put a pressure on me that I should talk to them about my problems, and I don't want to because they're not someone I want to talk about my problems to. I really don't like it when people are like, I don't know, if you give any indication of the fact that maybe you've had a difficult time recently or anything like that, and they almost get angry because you haven't called them to talk about it, like, I barely know you.

[00:16:12.670] - César (Guest)

That happens to you in Spain, I guess. Yeah.

[00:16:14.880] - Oliver (Host)

Because I have a very small group of people that I feel very comfortable telling everything to.

[00:16:22.200] - César (Guest)

Your safety net.

[00:16:23.400] - Oliver (Host)

My safety net, my safe space. Yes. But my mum, you, my sister, (Beep).

[00:16:32.340] - César (Guest)

(Beep) is a friend.

[00:16:33.420] - Oliver (Host)

No, actually, I gave him a pseudonym because I actually interviewed him previously on the concept of friendship. I think his name was Alex. I can't remember. Alex, or whoever from that earlier episode about friendship, which was a very different one from this, but yes.

[00:16:51.680] - César (Guest)

What is the thing that you know when you have first encounter with someone who potentially might become your next best friend? What is the thing that you really like?

[00:17:03.720] - Oliver (Host)

What is the thing that I look for most in a friend? I think it's... Obviously, it's under running everything that we said about friendship, about new friendships. It's just that X factor of- (The spark.) The spark. It's intangible. You can't really define it either. It's just you know when you have from the beginning of the coffee.

[00:17:31.060] - César (Guest)

It boils down to sense of humour as well, no?

[00:17:34.660] - Oliver (Host)

I suppose so, yeah. In your case. I don't know, being on the same wavelength, we can say in English. The same wavelength. Wavelength. The...just the chemistry. Someone that you feel amused by, as you say, the sense of humour, someone that you feel is interesting. For me, it's very important that someone be logical. I think.

[00:18:00.980] - César (Guest)

One thing that I really like and respect about you- I'm sorry, I've got one more thing.

[00:18:07.700] - Oliver (Host)

It's going to be how I always let you speak. Was that it? Another thing that I think- (I'm not going to say what I respect about you now.) I do want to know. But the thing that I really, really like as well, and this is something that my friend, again, (Beep) Alex, whatever his name is, he's very independent. So he listens and he cares, but he'll never tell you what to do because, on the one ha-(nd), I think he really respects people's autonomy, and he might have opinions about it, and he might think that what I'm doing is the stupidest thing in the world. But it's almost like it doesn't matter to him enough. There are other things that are more important than one momentary silly decision. It's hard to explain, it's kind of like a - But a lot of people in my life who are very close to me have it, where it's like, if you look at it from a very pessimistic point of view or a very negative point of view, it's almost like an indifference? But I think it's like giving someone total space to be themselves. And it's genuinely not being judgmental, but it's very hard for me to put that into words. And we've got only two and a half minutes left.

[00:19:15.960] - César (Guest)

The thing I respect about you or I like about you when it comes to friendship is the fact that you don't have any, you are not classist at all with new friends. Because I know many people who only like to make friends with a specific type of people, a specific type of person, but you don't have that. Like, you don't mind the background, their jobs, their nothing.

[00:19:43.560] - Oliver (Host)

Well, that's nice. I guess.

[00:19:44.810] - César (Guest)

Or not because there are some people who are like, Oh, if this person is not cool enough, or don't (doesn't) live in this neighbourhood, or don't have this type of job, I don't want to be...I think it's very cliquey, very like high school. But some people in their 30s and 40s are still like that.

[00:20:03.180] - Oliver (Host)

It's nice for you, obviously, to say it, but I suppose the thing is I view that as the bare minimum, no?

[00:20:09.250] - César (Guest)

I know, but... So what is the thing that you respect about me?

[00:20:14.240] - Oliver (Host)

Ah, César, we don't have the time. I don't know, actually. I don't think I could think and describe it.

[00:20:22.340] - César (Guest)

We have 1 minute, 20 seconds.

[00:20:23.840] - Oliver (Host)

We've got to do the sign off. What do I think? (I'm kidding. You don't have to say it.) Well, I mean, we really don't have time. Cliffhanger, I'll come back at a future date with that. But mostly it's going to come down to some variation of the fact that you're very kind. Okay. Yeah. (How boring.) And if I have nothing to say, then you'll always feel that space endlessly talking about yourself, you know, which is good. Thank you very much, listener, for listening.

[00:20:57.180] - César (Guest)

Thank you very much for being there. Subscribe because it's very important for the continuity of the podcast. It helps a lot.

[00:21:07.300] - Oliver (Host)

It does. So please subscribe, leave nice reviews, five-star ratings. Anything else? No. We're done. Okay. Thank you.

[00:21:15.850] - César (Guest)

Thank you. Ciao.