Transcript + vocabulary list + exercise:
Transcript:
[00:00:00.240] - Oliver
Welcome back to English and Beyond, a new intermediate English podcast for learners of English as a Foreign Language. For these podcasts, I'm publishing a free transcript, which you can find online at www.morethanalanguage.com.
[00:00:15.220] - Oliver
As I highlighted in the first episode, you may not understand every word in this podcast. Don't worry about it, go and have a look at the transcript - that's what it's there for, and also have a look at the exercises that we include that will help with those most challenging words. Often you'll find that straight after that word has been used, there's another similar word, a synonym, that might even help you puzzle it out from context.
[00:00:39.750] - Oliver
Today, we're diving—this is a pun, as you'll see—into a topic that is as old as time, yet as modern as the latest filter: narcissism or extreme self-love. But before we start throwing around modern buzzwords like hashtags and selfies, let's take a little trip back to ancient Greece to set the stage. Despite what your grandparents might tell you, the youth of today is not uniquely self-obsessed. This has been going on for millennia. Once upon a time, in a world of Greek mythology, there was a remarkably handsome young man named Narcissus.
[00:01:18.520] - Oliver
Narcissus was the epitome of beauty, the perfect example of attractiveness, so much so that when he saw his own reflection in a pool of water, he fell hopelessly in love with it. He stayed there, mesmerised and fascinated by his own image, unable to tear himself away, but equally unable to embrace the object of his affection for obvious reasons. It was just a mirror image of himself. Eventually, this self-obsession led to his demise, his death. According to one version of the story, he starved, wasting away, consumed by unrequited love for himself, unable to look away from his own beauty. In another version, overcome by lust, he threw himself forward at the reflection, hoping to embrace it and drowned. In both versions, he ended up transformed into a delicate flower, the Narcissus flower, which still grows by water's edge, forever gazing at its own reflection. This story, as told most famously by the Roman poet Ovid, is where we get the modern psychosocial term Narcissus from. Narcissus's tale is a timeless reminder of the dangers of excessive self-love and vanity. But who knew that centuries later, we'd have something that makes Narcissus's treacherously reflective pool of water look like a quaint little puddle?
[00:02:43.730] - Oliver
Fast forward to today, and Instagram appears, the modern day pool where millions of people gaze at their reflections, although in the form of selfies. Instagram has become the ultimate platform for self-expression and, if we're honest, a bit of self-obsession. From carefully managed feeds to perfectly angled selfies, it's a world where the line between confidence and narcissism can get pretty blurry. The selfie has become the cornerstone, the essential part, of Instagram. While it can be a fun way to capture moments and share them with friends, it can also lead to an unhealthy preoccupation with one's appearance. How many times have you or your friends taken a selfie, only to retake it countless times because the lighting wasn't just right or your hair was doing that weird thing. And then there's the likes and comments. Every like is a little hit of dopamine, making you feel good about your self a brief moment. But the flip side is that it can create a dependency on that external validation, on approval from others. Just like Narcissus was glued to his reflection, some of us can become glued to our screens, constantly refreshing and checking for new likes, new comments, new followers.
[00:04:02.570] - Oliver
It's all about crafting and manipulating your own image to impress others. And a lot of the time, that image doesn't correlate, that image doesn't match, at all with our own reality. That beautiful couple's photo with cocktails by the pool hides the huge argument about money that they had just had off camera. The perfectly styled breakfast shot may have come after a morning of total chaos and burnt toast, and the serene yoga pose on the beach might be masking the fact that they missed their flight, lost their luggage, and spent the night sleeping uncomfortably on airport chairs. It's a curated highlight reel, not a candid, spontaneous documentary.
[00:04:45.470] - Oliver
This brings us to my biggest problem with Instagram: its psychological impact. The platform can foster a sense of inadequacy or not feeling good enough, and anxiety, as people compare their lives to the often ideal realised images they see on other people's profiles, which, as we've seen, is often not really the truth. We don't need academic studies to tell us what we already instinctively know, that excessive use of social media can lead to decreased self-esteem and increased feelings of loneliness. It's a bit like staring into Narcissus' pool, but instead of seeing a beautiful reflection of yourself, you see an unrealistically beautiful version of everyone else's life.
[00:05:30.250] - Oliver
Now, I must admit, I've been wary or cautious of falling into the Instagram trap myself. My web presence is rather sparse. Only two photos on my Instagram profile, and everything is private. It's not out of smugness or self-satisfaction, but rather a cautious approach to avoid the pitfalls, the dangers of constant validation seeking, and the endless comparison game. As you'll know from the last episode, I certainly have the potential to become very self-obsessed, and I hate the way that that makes me feel.
[00:06:04.840] - Oliver
As always, I have someone here with me to add their thoughts to this interesting topic, and it is, surprise, surprise, César, again. I think that we're going to aim to discuss narcissism as it's generally understood by the ordinary person rather than the psychoanalytical term. Right, César?
[00:06:24.100] - César
Yeah, because we are not qualified to talk about narcissism from psychiatrist...psychiatry?
[00:06:31.320] - Oliver
Psychiatric.
[00:06:32.460] - César
Psychiatric point of view.
[00:06:33.770] - Oliver
Exactly. I was going to say exactly that. We're not doctors, we're not scientists, we're not psychiatrists. We're just two guys, two idiots with a microphone.
[00:06:43.560] - César
I was going to use a stronger word.
[00:06:46.780] - Oliver
It's a family-friendly podcast. So let's get into it. César, speaking of microphones, you have-
[00:06:53.750] - César
Oliver.
[00:06:54.260] - Oliver
Speaking of microphones, you have four podcasts. You also have a pretty big Instagram with over-
[00:07:00.720] - César
It's not big.
[00:07:01.870] - Oliver
Over 22,000 followers, by the way, almost 100 times more than me. Do you ever stop to think, "Have I become a narcissist?"
[00:07:10.580] - César
I think everyone has some narcissistic traits, right?
[00:07:16.810] - Oliver
That's not a denial. Go on.
[00:07:19.280] - César
I don't consider myself a narcissist, but I'm sure I have been a narcissist at some point in my life or in a specific situation. Instagram for me is not such a big deal, at all, especially because I do think it's not that big. I know people who have million(s of) followers and they are doing the same thing as me, but on Instagram, and they constantly post things on Instagram. They're really (doing) a good job. But in my case, Instagram is just a way to showcase my latest podcast episode.
[00:07:53.760] - Oliver
We could say it's a professional tool.
[00:07:56.470] - César
Yeah, it's a professional tool. But it is so that, it is true that recently I have started, sometimes, not always, to use filters on the little videos that I upload on the reels.
[00:08:10.500] - Oliver
That was filters, not fillers, right?
[00:08:13.100] - César
No, filters, not fillers. Fillers, by the way, because at least in Spanish, it's a different word, is when you get injections in your face, no?
[00:08:23.190] - Oliver
You can also call them injectables, actually.
[00:08:25.960] - César
Injectables, okay. So, yeah, recently I have I felt more self-conscious about my wrinkles, those lines on your face. I was like, okay, maybe I could use a very subtle filter.
[00:08:42.400] - Oliver
You're lucky that you've only revealed this on the English podcast because otherwise on the Spanish content, that could really change people's point of view about you.
[00:08:50.200] - César
You can really tell.
[00:08:53.860] - Oliver
It's very clear. I can really tell. For me, it reminds me of early noughties (00s) television reality shows where they basically just smeared Vaseline on the lens so that the models and the presenters would look great. I did actually pick you up on that quite recently, that one of those videos really looked like that. But the funny thing is, I don't think of you as a narcissistic person with regard to your looks. Your job doesn't require you to be good-looking, which I think is interesting that even so, you do feel pressure being online to, kind of, try to look nice. I don't think you're unusual. I think everybody likes to look nice in general. But, you know, the way that you look should be basically completely irrelevant to your actual career as a teacher. And so, but the way that Instagram has impacted and infiltrated our society means that that natural human desire to look nice gets so bound up into every other aspect of our lives because of Instagram, image becomes so important. In the same way that pop stars in the '90s, their appearance was heavily cultivated and scrutinised and checked by their record labels and everything, it's almost like that has become true for so many more people because now whatever you want to sell on Instagram, you know that you're going to have more success and the algorithm is more likely to find you if you are attractive.
[00:10:38.880] - Oliver
So I joked at the beginning of the podcast that the youth of today are criticised unfairly by their elders and that, in fact, self-obsession and narcissism have existed for as long as people have existed. That said, surely the invention of camera phones and social media have had an impact. Do you think that people have become more self-obsessed over time?
[00:10:59.860] - César
It is true that the amount of visual stuff that we all have since the digital camera, because back in the day, you could take a picture. Well, firstly, I think everyone, when you look yourself in the mirror, you look much better than when you see yourself on a picture, on a photo, because you can actually spot and pick up (on) so many flaws and things that you would like to be different. I guess with the amount of video and photos that we all have now, it's easier to analyse and overanalyse how we look and maybe get more obsessed. Also, like, external factors like the beauty industry. In the '60s, men were nonexistent for them, right? But they have realised with metrosexuality and David Beckham, I guess from the '90s, that they can make a lot of money. They can make a killing with men. They started putting pressure on us as well.
[00:12:00.070] - Oliver
Yeah, We've found equality, finally, in the beauty industry, not by reducing the pressure on women, by subjecting men to the same pressure. You said that we have more visual stuff available to us. I guess that's probably true, but I would say that maybe there's more of an emphasis now on that stuff being instantaneous, instantly available, because I don't know if it was the case for you, but my mom had hundreds and thousands of pictures in our house. You know those envelopes where you have all like, you got like 30 pictures developed at a time. We had so many that we never, we never, ever looked at. Whereas I suppose now it's you take a photo and everyone crowds around the photo to have a look and see, how do I look? What do you think? And then someone's not happy.
[00:12:50.010] - César
Take another one.
[00:12:50.710] - Oliver
Yeah. Someone's not happy, so you have to take more. I remember going on a date and he was quite big on Instagram back when that was unusual thing to be. And we went out for a drink or whatever, and he showed me his Instagram and he showed me some photos. I think he opened his gallery, and I just couldn't believe it because for every photo that he posted on Instagram, there were, and I'm not exaggerating, maybe 300 to 400 photos, almost identical, that he had taken. It was just this incredible quantity of photos to find the right one. Whereas I don't have the patience for more than one.
[00:13:35.680] - César
I take pictures of you when you don't realise and you don't take pictures of me.
[00:13:42.500] - Oliver
I don't like to take pictures and I don't like pictures taken off me.
[00:13:47.390] - César
I always say that when I die, you can use one of the pictures from my podcast as the funeral photo.
[00:13:55.530] - Oliver
Well, your pictures are very lovely. But I should say, like I said in the podcast, actually, the reason that I don't want photos taken of me is not because I'm above it. I don't need to worry about these kinds of things. But instead, I really hate looking at photos of myself. I really hate it when you take candid photos and show them to me because almost inevitably, I think, "Oh, my God, this is what I look like." I mean,
[00:14:22.860] - César
- and it is!
[00:14:23.870] - Oliver
Yeah, and it is. I was about to say, I know it's not. But, but yeah, maybe it is. Obviously, we've discussed a little bit there about whether people have always been self-obsessed, and you think that we have become more self-obsessed over time. One thing that I think is undoubtedly true is that I think young people are so much more stylish and aware of their looks than we were at that age. I think it's crazy how aware they are of how to dress, how to style their hair. People are getting cosmetic work done like fillers, injectables, younger and younger. Whereas when I was 18, I still hadn't used gel in my hair for the first time, and I had my braces at that age. Whereas now, I think the influence of social media means that they just feel that pressure so early to look nice.
[00:15:24.400] - César
There is more content about how to style clothing, for example. I see there's trend where people show "wear", so they compare wearing something and "style" (styling) something. They give you little tricks about how to wear something in a more stylish, fashionable way. Back in the day, I think when you're a teenager, you are always a bit obsessed with your look and clothing and all that. But in the era of social media, people have now, where they can actually look for specific channels where they, like my sister, learned how to do her makeup from YouTube videos. She does it very well. She likes makeup. I guess it's like the internet has democratised the way we learn. Some people now are learning with us. They're practising their English, their listening skills with a very curated and specific topic. Back in the day, it was really difficult.
[00:16:31.380] - Oliver
That's true that you just had these kind ofcassettes.
[00:16:35.100] - César
Yeah. In Spain, it was called "Speak up!". You would go to the kiosco, the kiosk, I guess.
[00:16:42.330] - Oliver
Maybe the newsagents.
[00:16:45.140] - César
Yeah, the newsagents, where you get the newspaper, magazines, and this was a magazine, you would buy with a cassette.
[00:16:52.380] - Oliver
Oh, wow.
[00:16:53.250] - César
Probably a CD-ROM later on. But it was a monthly instalment. It -
[00:17:00.260] - Oliver
We sound very old. We sound like back in my day, it was-
[00:17:04.190] - César
In the old good days.
[00:17:06.120] - Oliver
You had to really wait and save up for your copy of "Speak Up!".
[00:17:10.060] - César
Actually, you had to, it was actually very expensive. I couldn't afford it.
[00:17:14.960] - Oliver
Did you steal it?
[00:17:16.080] - César
I might have done.
[00:17:18.310] - Oliver
So dedicated were you to education?
[00:17:20.640] - César
Yeah.
[00:17:22.650] - Oliver
Okay. Well, I suppose my next question really is, do you think that since we're talking about the youngsters of today and the evils of social media, do you think that their lives would be better if we just cancelled it? If we deleted social media and blocked it for everybody? What do you think it would have as an impact on people's narcissism.
[00:17:45.350] - César
I think it'd be positive in many things, especially like...I was going to say people would waste less time, but actually we used to waste time watching television, probably.
[00:17:59.140] - Oliver
Yeah, it's I don't know what I filled my hours with when I was a teenager.
[00:18:04.170] - César
Television. Video games. Yeah. But I think the... I think forbidding stuff is not always the right thing to do. It's probably better to teach people how to use technology.
[00:18:19.240] - Oliver
Forbidding. I would say probably here banning.
[00:18:21.610] - César
Banning.
[00:18:22.190] - Oliver
Banning stuff.
[00:18:23.720] - César
I was going to say prohibiting, but that's probably quite formal.
[00:18:29.350] - Oliver
Yeah. Prohibiting. Prohibiting. Yeah, I think the most common word would be banning. So you think, I mean, maybe that's a discussion for another day.
[00:18:37.700] - César
It's been cancelled recently, no? Telephones in Spain and in the UK.
[00:18:42.210] - Oliver
Well, do you mean -
[00:18:43.660] - César
In your school.
[00:18:44.440] - Oliver
Schools have banned. Schools have banned telephones, yeah. Although I'm not sure that that's because of all of the selfies that they're taking in the playground. But it's true that the teenagers that I teach are constantly on their mobiles. I also find it weird - again, I think that the tone or the topic of this episode has changed - but I find it really weird when I see young people on the tube having a conversation, or not even on the tube, everywhere, at school, on the tube, in the streets, having a conversation with one headphone in because they're constantly being stimulated.
[00:19:25.080] - César
So they're talking to someone in the real life?
[00:19:27.750] - Oliver
Yeah.
[00:19:28.030] - César
Talking to someone on the internet?
[00:19:29.510] - Oliver
No, they're listening to music. They're listening to music, they're listening to something while having a chat with their friend. And so they're never, ever switched off or just focussed on one conversation. I don't know if that's a trend that is universal that you see throughout the world, but it's definitely something that I see a lot here in London.
[00:19:49.650] - César
Yeah. Well, it's, as you say, completely off topic. But even platforms like Netflix now, they think about how to make shows where people are watching them while being on their phones. They're considering, so they have to be simple and easy to follow and-
[00:20:09.490] - Oliver
Repeating the same thing a few times. Interesting. Okay.
[00:20:14.560] - César
I want to ask you something. Do you consider yourself a narcissist? Or have you ever been a narcissist? Or do you think you could become a narcissist if something changes? Like, Fame arises.
[00:20:31.630] - Oliver
Well, I'm actually going to talk about Fame in another episode soon. I absolutely do not want to be famous.
[00:20:39.450] - César
That's why you don't even show your face. I'm the only one showing face.
[00:20:44.230] - Oliver
Exactly. I definitely... I think I have the potential to be a narcissist like everybody. I think that sometimes my narcissism can be a bit of a reverse narcissism.
[00:20:55.230] - César
Can you explain that?
[00:20:56.390] - Oliver
I think I'm so conscious about not being a narcissist or not being self-obsessed or not worrying too much about the way that I look in many ways, that actually it can have a reverse impact, that it shows a different self-obsession. For example, as I said, I hate having my photo taken. If I am at some beauty spot or there are lots of people taking photos, taking selfies, and you want to take a photo with me and whatever we have in the background, I will I don't typically only allow you one photo. Because
[00:21:32.970] - César
Very quickly!
[00:21:34.080] - Oliver
Yeah, I can't stand being there. But really, I think part of the reason I can't stand it is because people watch me and judge me for taking these selfies. They won't judge me, obviously. They don't care. They're too busy taking their own selfies. But I think that shows a self-obsession of thinking that you're the main character and that people care what you're doing. I think I probably have that narcissism. Maybe that's more profound narcissism than just uploading lots of photos to Instagram. Do you know what I mean?
[00:22:11.500] - César
Yeah. Actually, I think you are the only person I know that has said to me many times, "I'm fed up with talking about myself". Because normally people don't realise that they talk about themselves. I think many times when I told you that you talk about yourself because you are analysing or you are this like an introspection that you are, you're reflecting on something that has happened. People will never say, "Oh, I'm self-obsessed because I'm talking about myself." Just do it because it's an important part of our process as a person.
[00:22:50.040] - Oliver
Yeah, I suppose that that's when, when I say that to you, it's when I've maybe had some problem with a family member or a problem at work, and I'm probably saying to you, "Am I the issue? Is this me?" If that happens too much, I sometimes just feel just bored of self-analysis. This podcast is obviously an ironic choice for me because every week I'm having to sit down and think, "What matters to me? Or what do I think?" Maybe eventually, after like 10 episodes, I'll do an episode of 'I'm so bored of my own opinion'. But, well, thank you, César, for being here for another episode. Thank you. I hope that you've enjoyed talking about yourself and about us. Have you?
[00:23:40.060] - César
Yes, I have. It was fun. Thank you.
[00:23:43.770] - Oliver
So all that remains to do now is to ask you, listener, if you've enjoyed this podcast, once again, in a very stereotypical podcast way, please rate, please share. I can't remember what phrase César used last time. What was it? It was spread the voice.
[00:24:01.190] - César
Spread the voice? Spread the word. Exactly.
[00:24:04.000] - Oliver
So spread the word. Share it with your friends, parents, lovers.
[00:24:09.190] - César
Teachers.
[00:24:09.800] - Oliver
Teachers. Don't hesitate to send me an email at oliver@morethanalanguage.com. Thank you very much for listening and hopefully see you next time.
[00:24:22.840] - César
Bye!
[00:24:23.630] - Oliver
Bye-bye.
[00:24:25.370] - César
Are you going to cut off my bye?
[00:24:27.030] - Oliver
Yeah...
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