46. Movies: Popcorn to Plot Twists

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[00:00:06.11] - Oliver (Host)

So, César, where would you rank the experience, pleasurable experiences in your life of going into the cinema, warm popcorn, sweet for you, salt for me -

[00:00:16.55] - César (Guest)

No, mixed for me.

[00:00:18.25] - César (Guest)

Mixed for you. A nice Coke, Diet Coke, if we're honest, and sitting down to watch a film in the dark with fellow members of the public.

[00:00:28.18] - César (Guest)

Amazing. Yeah?

[00:00:29.12] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah. You're a fan?

[00:00:30.23] - César (Guest)

I love it.

[00:00:31.11] - Oliver (Host)

You love it. Do you prefer it to staying at home and streaming something on Netflix?

[00:00:36.45] - César (Guest)

Well, yeah, because probably if we stream something on Netflix, I will end up asleep. I will fall asleep.

[00:00:42.19] - Oliver (Host)

That is true. And actually, we're going to be talking about a specific film today, and you did not fall asleep, not even a second. And this film, I believe, has received a good critical reception, and we will talk about that later. But the most glowing endorsement it could possibly receive is the fact that you stayed awake.

[00:01:01.07] - César (Guest)

Yeah, and it was a very long film.

[00:01:02.23] - Oliver (Host)

It was a very long film.

[00:01:03.40] - César (Guest)

So it's even better.

[00:01:04.31] - Oliver (Host)

So let's find out more in a moment. But before, welcome to English and Beyond. This is an advanced-level podcast for learners of English as a foreign language. If there's anything that you find difficult about this podcast, there is a free transcript and free vocabulary flashcards available on www.morethanalanguage.com. And I hope that you will need to use the flashcards because we have loads of very high-level cinematic vocabulary in this episode. Shall we begin? Yeah. So, César, we went to the cinema, we went to the movies, we went to see a film last night. What did you think of it? Or what was the film first?

[00:01:44.41] - César (Guest)

About the film or about the whole experience?

[00:01:46.52] - Oliver (Host)

Let's talk about both. Okay, so we'll start by talking about the film, and then we can talk about the cinematic experience. Okay.

[00:01:54.37] - César (Guest)

There was this film called Sinners. I didn't know anything about it. Only one person recommended it to us, and we went to see it. We went to see it yesterday with some friends. I didn't even watch the trailer before going to see it.

[00:02:13.58] - Oliver (Host)

You can say that we both went in completely blind.

[00:02:17.08] - César (Guest)

We went in completely blind, that's true. In fairness, I had looked up the length of the film because I wanted to know how long it was.

[00:02:26.01] - Oliver (Host)

Was it going to be a sprawling epic of a film or just a little short, 90-minuter?

[00:02:32.54] - César (Guest)

Yeah, and it happened to be a very long film, very weird film as well. We don't want to give or do any spoilers.

[00:02:41.59] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, you don't want to give any spoilers.

[00:02:43.35] - César (Guest)

Okay. But yeah, it wasn't what you expected from a horror film, let's say. Let's put it that way. Did you like it? You liked it a lot, I think.

[00:02:53.53] - Oliver (Host)

I actually did like it. I thought that it was good because it was not formulaic, which means that it didn't move to the kind of same usual formula. You definitely couldn't say, oh, I've seen this before, you know, hundreds of times. And also because we knew nothing about it, it certainly wasn't overhyped for us. I thought the film was atmospheric. I thought the cinematography was really good. I thought the music was really good. I thought the characters were interesting. You had to have-

[00:03:22.40] - César (Guest)

The music was amazing as well.

[00:03:23.59] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, exactly. There was an element of you needed to suspend your disbelief. To buy into the context of the film and-

[00:03:34.46] - César (Guest)

And embrace the weirdness about it.

[00:03:37.23] - Oliver (Host)

Exactly. But I thought that it was really atmospheric. I thought that it was aesthetically very striking. I thought it was really beautifully filmed.

[00:03:46.31] - César (Guest)

You used a term that I've never heard before, suspension of disbelief. What do you mean exactly?

[00:03:54.17] - Oliver (Host)

So it's like, again, without wanting to give away too many details, without wanting to include spoilers in this, there were things that were not... The world of the film mixed a realistic historical world with elements that are not historical. And so you have to suspend your disbelief. You have to say, Okay, I'm going to ignore the fact that that is not realistic in order to buy into the fantasy elements of the world, I would say.

[00:04:25.04] - César (Guest)

Okay. Yeah.

[00:04:26.26] - Oliver (Host)

Is it the film that you like to go and see?

[00:04:29.17] - César (Guest)

Well, I think It was definitely the type of film that you want to see at the cinema, right? Because of the music.

[00:04:37.26] - Oliver (Host)

To get the full silver screen experience.

[00:04:40.02] - César (Guest)

Exactly. It's a really nice popcorn film. Can you say that?

[00:04:44.52] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah.

[00:04:45.12] - César (Guest)

I only know that this term because Demi Moore, who has been recently all over the media because she was nominated to the Oscars, she said that she used to be a popcorn actress, which I guess is like disrespectful way to address someone if you're an actual actress, not like a commercial, very mainstream, but in a negative way.

[00:05:07.04] - Oliver (Host)

You're not like an artiste. You're just an actress. I would say that it was a mix of those, wasn't it? I wouldn't say that it was a popcorn movie in the sense of a throwaway film, a film where you just are not made to think or you're not supposed to think about it. You're just supposed to sit back and enjoy and be thrilled. I don't think it was that film.

[00:05:32.19] - César (Guest)

No, definitely.

[00:05:33.46] - Oliver (Host)

Are you someone, would you say that you like films that are quite cerebral? We could say Oscar bait films where you feel like they've written and shot them specifically with the hope of winning an Oscar. Or are you someone who prefer something that's maybe a little bit more mainstream, a little bit less? Well, it depends how your perspective is. Some people might say pretentious.

[00:05:58.37] - César (Guest)

I think it's a bit like the music for me. It depends on my mood. If I'm maybe slightly on my blues, or if I'm feeling the blues.

[00:06:11.08] - Oliver (Host)

Are you trying to talk about this from the film? Because there's a whole blues music motif.

[00:06:18.05] - César (Guest)

If I'm slightly depressed, slightly sad, low mood kind of thing.

[00:06:22.11] - Oliver (Host)

You can say if I'm feeling blue.

[00:06:23.37] - César (Guest)

If I'm feeling blue, I thought you can say, I've got the blues.

[00:06:27.22] - Oliver (Host)

You can say, I've got the blues as well.

[00:06:29.34] - César (Guest)

Perfect. If I've got the blues or I'm feeling slightly low, I'd rather go to the cinema to watch something more light-hearted, less intense. But I'm quite eclectic when it comes to cinema and movies, I don't have any favourite genre, to be honest.

[00:06:54.17] - Oliver (Host)

Genre.

[00:06:55.01] - César (Guest)

Genre.

[00:06:55.36] - Oliver (Host)

Genre.

[00:06:56.52] - César (Guest)

Genre. Genre.

[00:06:57.26] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, we try to say it like the French. I don't know I don't know how the French actually say it, but we say genre. Okay. Yeah. Do you think that this film is going to become... Well, do you think it's got good ratings? Based on what you've seen, do you think that it's likely to have been critically acclaimed or critically panned?

[00:07:14.27] - César (Guest)

I think it's been critically acclaimed, both by the critics and by the public.

[00:07:21.31] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, so it's received a positive welcome, a positive reception from the audience.

[00:07:27.25] - César (Guest)

I checked on different websites, and it's got a like 8 out of 10 rating. I guess it's really good. We were saying that it was a weird experience, not only because of the film, but also the people at the cinema, because I feel like every time we go to the cinema, there's some people either talking a lot or yesterday, for example, these people came very late. They tried to get their seats, but their seats were taken by someone else, so they had to go somewhere else. And this couple started arguing. They were standing up in the middle of the screen and shouting each other like, "Don't push me, don't rush me." And I was like, well, It's funny because it always happens in Valencia, right? People are slightly more shameless when it comes to respect the silence that you require in a screen cinema.

[00:08:27.40] - Oliver (Host)

I think it's true that we can call cinema etiquette. It's different in Spain or at least in Valencia.

[00:08:34.00] - César (Guest)

It's very relaxed.

[00:08:35.27] - Oliver (Host)

Very relaxed, yeah. To be honest, I think it was a testament to how entertaining this film was that people weren't talking throughout like in other films that we've been to. Because in other films that we've seen recently in the cinema here, people have just constantly been chattering, talking away during the film, which does somewhat impact your experience. And you kind of go to the cinema - well, it's difficult because you go to the cinema to be surrounded by other people, I suppose, as an element. Also to see the film in true cinema scope, in a wide screen, with a high-quality sound that you don't get if you just stream the film at home. But I think there's a fine balance, isn't there, between the enjoyment that you get from being in a public space and the fact that sometimes that involves interacting with the public.

[00:09:30.53] - César (Guest)

Although I've always found very weird talking about cinema etiquette, the fact that you can eat things at the cinema, especially popcorn, which we always get popcorn.

[00:09:42.36] - Oliver (Host)

Almost always, yeah. Here, it's only popcorn, isn't it? Which I guess you're going to talk about now.

[00:09:47.04] - César (Guest)

Yeah, but I was going to say because yesterday, as I was eating my popcorn and slurping on my Coke, I was like, this is actually quite disgusting in the sense of you were doing it as well. Our friend right next to me was doing it as well, and it was quite noisy. I could hear you both chewing on popcorn.

[00:10:12.37] - Oliver (Host)

I was quite conscious of this, actually, because normally I am much quieter than you. It's funny that you should say this because I normally feel a little bit uncomfortable because you are totally nonchalant about it. You're totally relaxed. But I actually did think that I was eating it quite loudly yesterday because I was so engrossed in the film that I did have a moment where I was like, "Oh, I'm actually eating like a little pig".

[00:10:36.56] - César (Guest)

Pigging out on popcorn.

[00:10:38.16] - Oliver (Host)

I was pigging out on popcorn.

[00:10:39.22] - César (Guest)

Talking about eating, I'm super hungry and my stomach keeps on roaring?

[00:10:45.35] - Oliver (Host)

Growling.

[00:10:46.09] - César (Guest)

Growling. I'm sorry if this is going through the mic.

[00:10:49.53] - Oliver (Host)

I mean, I can't hear it here, so hopefully the people at home can't hear it there. But fair enough. Was there anyone in the film that you think, kind of, we could classify as a scene stealer? Do you know what that means?

[00:11:06.08] - César (Guest)

I guess, I mean, I've never heard that expression or term before, but I guess it's a character that really stands out among all the characters in the film. Well, I think the musician, the singer in the film, the young one, is quite good because every time he sang during the film, you really wanted to listen to him. He was a really good singer.

[00:11:33.17] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, he was a bit of a scene stealer, especially with his, when he sang.

[00:11:38.55] - César (Guest)

Funny thing is, we went with a group of friends, and the main actor in this film is called...

[00:11:46.11] - Oliver (Host)

Michael B. Jordan.

[00:11:47.17] - César (Guest)

Okay. And he played, he plays two different characters because they're twins. I never thought that... It didn't cross my mind the fact that he was probably the same actor.

[00:12:00.02] - Oliver (Host)

So you thought they'd found some twins in their life?

[00:12:02.13] - César (Guest)

Yeah, because I didn't know he was that famous.

[00:12:05.30] - Oliver (Host)

He's quite a big box office draw now. Okay. Yeah, and I think that...

[00:12:09.36] - César (Guest)

Box office?

[00:12:10.23] - Oliver (Host)

Draw. Because the idea is you draw people into the cinema. To draw is to entice, to attract. Exactly. So he's a box office draw. Do you know what we say when someone is the opposite of box office draw?

[00:12:30.51] - César (Guest)

Box office put-off?

[00:12:33.52] - Oliver (Host)

We say worse than that, really, actually. We say Box Office poison.

[00:12:38.05] - César (Guest)

Oh, wow. Who could that be right now?

[00:12:41.27] - Oliver (Host)

I think it goes through stages, doesn't it? There are...I think it's probably a bit unfair to say it, actually, because a lot of the time what will happen is that you'll have an actor or an actress who will be the main starring actor or actress in that film, and they'll receive top billing, we can say. But then that film will flop. That film will not make a lot of money. Almost to excuse the fact that it has failed, the media and the studio will start to say, "It's the fault of this principal actor or actress." And if that happens more than once, then they can get the label of box office poison. But obviously, there are loads of things that make a film unsuccessful, and I think that it's unfair. I'm not so sure nowadays, but I remember that Halle Berry, for example, was branded box office poison, I think, after Catwoman, because she had had a series of successes. She'd been in X-Men, she'd won an Oscar, lots of things had gone well. And then she had a couple of films that hadn't performed so well, culminating in Catwoman. I think she was called box office poison. But it's complicated and it's not really her fault as such.

[00:13:54.45] - César (Guest)

Could we say, because it just came to my mind, a term called washed-up actor or washed-up actress?

[00:14:02.53] - Oliver (Host)

I think washed-up would imply that they've had a long career, or their career... Maybe it's not necessarily a long career, but their career is over. And so they're working still, but they're working in small parts or critically unacclaimed parts.

[00:14:19.10] - César (Guest)

Hallmark Films.

[00:14:20.52] - Oliver (Host)

They could be doing Hallmark Films.

[00:14:21.55] - César (Guest)

You should explain what Hallmark Films are, because I think they're very famous. They're almost like a joke among the Anglo world, I don't think many people who don't belong to that world know.

[00:14:33.34] - Oliver (Host)

I'll probably get corrected by our American listeners because we do have some actual native American listeners. But my understanding is Hallmark, they're greeting cards. And so I think that they might actually have a studio as well,  so the greeting cards company actually finances these films. But essentially, they are very cliched romantic films where it's always boy meets girl. Normally, it's kind of set in a small town. The girl has come from the city from her stressful job in the city, and the boy is like a cowboy or a mechanic or something like that.

[00:15:14.29] - César (Guest)

He's also a widower.

[00:15:15.49] - Oliver (Host)

He might well be a widower, or he has a very paternal relationship with his young niece and nephew, that kind of thing. Essentially, they both teach each other that they've been missing something in their lives, that kind of thing, and it all ends up happily ever after. There might be a girlfriend who's not very nice, who gets in the way, or an ex-girlfriend, something like that. It's cliched, quite stereotypical gender roles a lot of the time. Films that are supposed to be feel good, you're supposed to watch them and enjoy them, but they're not things that you're probably thinking about too hard. So a little bit like a birthday greeting card.

[00:15:58.07] - César (Guest)

I see. Yeah. TV movies, no? They're only made for Hallmark channel.

[00:16:06.25] - Oliver (Host)

Exactly. They're normally low budget, so they're not being released to cinema.

[00:16:09.34] - César (Guest)

Okay. Thank you.

[00:16:11.02] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah. You could say, as I said, that they're formulaic. And they're not Oscar bait. We could say to reuse those words again. Do you have a favourite film just to finish off this episode?

[00:16:24.00] - César (Guest)

Yeah.

[00:16:24.53] - Oliver (Host)

Wow, that was quick, yeah?

[00:16:26.32] - César (Guest)

I've got two. From when I was little. The first one is Forrest Gump, which is not like a film for kids exactly.

[00:16:36.05] - Oliver (Host)

No. But you can see why your parents might mistake it for a film for kids.

[00:16:42.32] - César (Guest)

Maybe. But there was something about the film that really attracted me when I was little. I remember my mum bought it for me in VHS, in a tape. The funny thing about this film is that the older I got and the more times I watched that film, I understood better the plot, not the whole story, because things like sex or abusive relationships, drugs, I didn't understand when I was little, whether it what it was going on, and now I do. And the other one is, and I think this is very basic for many kids from our generation, Hook.

[00:17:24.51] - Oliver (Host)

Oh, yeah. It was an incredible cast. I think, off the In my head, I think it's Robin Williams, Julia Roberts, Dustin Hoffmann. The director, I think, is Steven Spielberg. I think it was supposed to be hugely successful, but instead it kind of flopped.

[00:17:41.42] - César (Guest)

It's such a good film.

[00:17:42.52] - Oliver (Host)

Yeah, we loved that film as well in my household when I was growing up. Okay, well César, that's all. We are running out of time.

[00:17:48.22] - César (Guest)

What is your favourite film?

[00:17:49.08] - Oliver (Host)

We don't have time for that, I'm afraid. We'll have to find out-

[00:17:52.43] - César (Guest)

In another episode.

[00:17:53.30] - Oliver (Host)

In another episode. So thank you very much, listener, for listening. Please like, follow, subscribe. I hope that this episode with advanced vocabulary has been useful. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

[00:18:05.51] - César (Guest)

Thank you.